MMG’s Bahrain

MMG’s Bahrain Track by SteveB

Right now we want to give a small statemant to the community. On 31/03/08 MMG’s Bahrain Track was released and we took a closer look at it because in the first release of the trackpack we already found lots of our stuff in the track.

With the new release of the trackpack, we again found things identical to ours:



These pictures proof us right. Nobody can ignore that at least buildings are used from our Bahrain and on the videowalls our CTDP2005 mod videos are running.

To sort out this issue we contacted Yanden as MMG’s “CEO” and to Phil as MMG’s Webmaster. We also talked to F1Racer and showed him this “issue”. Nothing happened. Then we talked to Phil on MSN and resend the mail so he knows everything now. He said he will talk to SteveB about that.
Yesterday I re-asked him the third time to remove the download until this issue is sorted out. I don’t want to publish the whole chatlog, but to summarize it, he said he won’t take it offline. This sounds interesting cause they accuse F1RFT of using their work. Looks like a double moral standard here..

We talked to Ralph Hummerich,too and he never gave any permission to convert this track,too. So everybody can draw his own conclusion but here is CTDP’s stand on the whole issue. We’re not very happy about that. We would have prefered a more internal solution for this “issue”.

There is nothing more to say from our side, we just want to present the facts.

35 thoughts on “MMG’s Bahrain”

  1. Didn’t expect anything else from MMG. I’ve never seen and heard of a modding group which is as narcissistic as MMG presents itsself in the public. Especially Yanden is a case for himself… just take a glance on their posts in the rscnet forum, no other response than shaking your head.

  2. This is shameful but I expected something like that coming from that group. Anyway the double moral thing is even worst.

    I hope that this makes them think about it, but I won’t expect NOTHING from them.


  3. Thats laughable,
    guys u are modders, ur work is for the community so please dont be silly.
    it would be better if u work together or help each other and not to raise a controversity all the time 🙁

  4. I want to say that i ve gotten sick of all these fighting for permisions etc.
    I dont support any mod group , mmg , ctdp , fsone or anyone else.
    I am just a gamer who wants to have the best modification possible for the game rfactor , wherever this come from , and i got to say that im sick of these endless discussions about the validity of released stuff . > (
    I havent tried this track but if it looks better and updated whats the problem with that.
    Remember that the only original stuff is the rfactor game core files that came from the original developers of this game .
    All the things we talk about here and in every forum are modifications of the actual thing .
    Some are better and some are worse indeed .
    But in anyways i dont thing that any user is interested in these stuff and likes hearing about ‘this is mine’ ‘this is illegal’.. , like we are in justice or in a political battle .
    Calm down guys . Peace and enjoy this game as we enjoy the lovely work of everyone that wants to involve himself in making this game look better .
    Thats it . Cheers .

  5. If indeed MMG have used the work of CTDP, and that of other members of the community without their concent, then indeed you have every right to be vocal on the issue. I am equally surprised that links to download the track in question have not been removed whilst this matter is being addressed.

    All the best in whichever way you choose to pursue this issue.


  6. Shame on MMG!!!! They are just stupid. It is the second illegal Track after Barcelona. They schould fire SteveB for this reason and remove this Track from there Website.
    The MMG Mod is nice and has good quality but the Trackpack seems to be crap. Very sad.

    Hope you gonna release CTDP 2006 very soon.

  7. Its funny because of their double standards.

    It makes me laugh hearing Yandens big talk and little results. What can you expect from a person who had a heart attack and stroke, then recovered in 2 days.

  8. I posted a respond , disagreeing with the post and the ‘masters’ ctdp guys deleted it.
    Nice freedom of speech ! Welldone …and then u speak about manners..

  9. @ ctdp-team: don’t be angry about such fools who are ont able to build a mod on their own which has half of the quality your work has

    just see it as a compliment; if your work wouldn’t be 100% perfect, they wouldn’t use it 😉

  10. Do u have permissions for the models you are using from Ferrari , BMW , Mclaren etc ?
    Hehe , i suppose no .
    I dont think that the users care for these things .
    Lets enjoy the best we can get for this game . 😉

  11. What’s funny, and sad, is the amateurish way MMG goes about pulling these stunts. They try to hide some things, deflect attention on others… and then leave CTDP2005 video on the videowalls. Why not just insert CTDP billboards instead??? Both accomplish about same in the end.

    Please don’t let these issues distract your focus on CTDP2006. Amazing how much better CTDP2005 is then anything recent. Can’t wait for 2006… and beyond. Thanks for all the hard work.

  12. I can see where you guys are very angry about this, and you have every right to be. What I think however is that you might be suprised to know how little this has to do with MMG and how it is rather an issue with and whoever you might find is responsible for running that site.

  13. It’s a matter of respect. Permissions show respect by contacting the original author. We are usually very open to give permissions if somebody asks and only refuse when we have very good reasons for doing so, for example bad quality convertions.

  14. @ all the people who are puzzled by us raising this issue.

    As it’s the first time I’m posting a comment here, I’ll state the reason I’m posting. I’m among the few people who have worked hands-on on the Bahrain track since its 1st beta release for F1Challenge. What’s more, in its current form it’s the only scratch built circuit released for Rfactor by CTDP. Lets just say, with the amount of effort we have put into it, its very dear to us.
    To give you an idea of the effort put into Bahrain let me present you with some statistics
    -Total file size of static (images) references collected – 1.98Gb (At ~400kb per image of (1600×1200) alone that amounts to about 5190 images)
    -Total file size of videos collected – 3.16Gb (This includes videos dating as far back as the day initial 3d visualizations were made, even before the circuit construction had started!)
    -Total file size for uncompressed textures created for Bahrain – 5.9Gb
    -Total file size of 3dsMax files created over the course of time for different versions – 6.1Gb
    This is the amount of data on my system alone. There’s more I’m sure on everyone else’s computer that’s worked on Bahrain. The number of hours we’ve spent working on this is something we’ve lost track of. I won’t even try to figure that out.

    Point is, when someone modifies, (or in this case reuses) without permission, parts from a project that’s taken so much time and effort, it is nothing but a plain show of disregard for the creator’s efforts. A simple mail asking for permission says“ I understand you have put in a lot of effort into this mod. We’d like to contribute some more objects to it so that it works better with our Mod.” How hard is it to do that? There have been occasions when people have asked for permissions, and some of us have gone to the extent of giving across source files. This works in two ways. It ensures, that the quality level is retained (if not improved) and the person updating has it easier, because they can start exactly where we left off. So, it’s always an improvement over the older version.

    In the case of Bahrain, we’ve refused permission on one occasion to FSONE, sometime last year (I think), because our own Version 2.0 of the track was well in progress. We’d already incorporated most of the suggestions from the community and were going towards improving some more aspects of the track. Letting anyone else start on an update based on the 1st version at that stage, and subsequently releasing Version 2.0 is just wrong. They’d put in their hard work, and we’d come along and release a 2nd version right after. How will that make anyone feel?

    It is just sad when well known modding groups take such actions. This is the example they set for others wanting to create content for Rfactor – ‘If you can’t make it yourself, find the next best thing and steal it.’ To add to that, it just goes over the top when you discredit the original authors and go on the offensive questioning the legality of their work. Our claims have been backed up with irrefutable proof unlike juvenile reasons claiming jealousy and what not. With any other long-standing mod group, something like this wouldn’t have turned into a mudslinging fest as it is now, as there’s a certain amount of class and a perception of ethics involved with them. Instead of releasing something and then countering objections with patches and updated versions, why not just have more stringent quality control. All mishaps are well contained within the members, and there’s no room for anyone at all to point fingers.

    Those of you that don’t care, its surprising you should have an opinion on this. Its guys like you that encourage people to rip mods. You make a mod group feel that the end justifies the means when making a mod. So they take the shortest way out to releasing mods without considering where the content originated. Thanks to people like you we’ll soon have people using official videos etc. to take the easy way out. That’s the time when the modding community will legally come up against organizations like FOM. You guys can say goodbye to the mods and we’ll find alternatives outlets for our creativity.

  15. They first accused F1RFT of using their work without permission then they used CTDPs work without permission.

    Then they have to nerve to defend them selfs and act as if they didn’t no nothing wrong.

  16. The track is still “illegal” because the RH Team did never give permission to convert it to rFactor!

  17. It is very sad that MMG has become that way. The Mod is great but the Tracks are such bad. Phil and SteveB really destroy MMG they schould be fired for that reason they are damaging MMG. Hope there wont be more events like this.

  18. RH is here 😛 Nice one…

    Thank you for your well-written comment Prozac. Respect CTDP.

  19. To make some things clear, we never said the track is ripped. Phil and Yanden are saying we said the whole track is ripped, that’s not true and we never said that. What we are claiming about are some buildings and textures and for us it’s just not understandable what is happening here. We tried to solve this issue behind the scenes but Phil left us no choice, sad but true….. Next time we use MMG 2007 models for “our” 2008 or 2009 mod, that should be ok,too…..

  20. Hi Neidryder,

    First concentrate on your 2006 mod. Hope it gonna be ready soon cause it looks just amazing. It gonna be the best mod on earth 10 times better than MMG.
    Continue your great work.

  21. Metalllord you are one sad dude. First you played FSONE and loved it. Then MMG came around and you started talking so much crap for FSONE, saying MMG is 100x better… and now my guess you got bored with MMG and desided to come here and bash MMG?

    Really Sad mates.

    Anyway Andy if you can have a chat with me. We have removed the final building in Bahrain V1.2. Also want to talk to you about other issues.


  22. Also according to SteveB he says he had converted this track from F1c, quite some time ago. My guess he converted a version from F1c which contained some of the Buildings from CTDP. However the original track came from RH.

    I asked Steve to fix this track, and remove any traces of CTDP. With v1.2, there shouldn’t be any sightings of CTDP.

    Apparently premissions status of RH track which steveB claims to have obtained seems to be some sort of misunderstanding. Therefore My PR director is setting up a meeting with the original track creators, as we try to solve matters out.

    Thanks mates
    Phil Sousa

    I do intend making things right here.


  23. No Frank thats where your wrong. At the time i thought I had premission for both versions. But till like couple weeks ago You said I had premission for v1.0 Not v2.0.

    I assumed i had premission for both version, or if it even mattered. Didn’t know i was suspose to ask you for V2.0 ? Thought it didn’t matter.

    You even said on our forum.


  24. Still don’t know why people think anything that gets released on is MMG. That is not the case. is my site period. Not MMG’s site.

    No one approved these tracks. SteveB and I just released them on Call them what you want.

    I will try to make them legal. But again you don’t blame MMG cuase i released a custom track pack for MMG. I can even do one up for CTDP and see if everyone blames CTDP? Becuase i made a track pack for CTDP thats illegal?

  25. If you like frank, perhaps we can talk? I would be willing to put your name on the loading screen along with the GP4 creators. I don’t know what you use? AIM? MSN?


  26. Phil what you say is crap in every release it is told visit us on even in MMG 2007. So dont say shit like that. If it isnt MMG why do you use their logo and name it MMG Track Pack??????

    I liked FSONE just in the beginning when it was a beta but it never got a really good mod and so i didnt like it anymore it got worst.

    MMG is getting worst because of you releasing an illegal track pack in there name. The Mod is good very good but when i look at that pictures of CTDP and look back in time they were and are just the best modders out there.

  27. Just a question about the track I asked in the wrong section earlier. It was stated during F1 television coverage numerous times about the smoothness of the Bahrain circuit. Bob Varsha commented about how the cars barely moved on the super smooth track. Will this new CTDP track be realistic in this regard or will it be only accurate in a visual sense? Are you artifically adding roughness to the track or not? The track looks very accurate just hope it feels the same. Thanks.

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